Wednesday, October 5, 2016
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Slow research
It has been some time since I actually did any real work on the Davies line, basically because I have done lots of work on my mothers family.
The Grist line has been traced back to the late 1400's and upwards of 150 people have been added to my tree, plus I have found 4 living cousins in California, England and Wales.
I have also created an online website at My Heritage. Despite it being named Worldwide Geleick's it does contain the full family tre - so far! So the Grist, Davies, Jones Edwards, etc. all all there.
The Grist line has been traced back to the late 1400's and upwards of 150 people have been added to my tree, plus I have found 4 living cousins in California, England and Wales.
I have also created an online website at My Heritage. Despite it being named Worldwide Geleick's it does contain the full family tre - so far! So the Grist, Davies, Jones Edwards, etc. all all there.
Wednesday, October 3, 2007
The Grist branch
I do not have much information about my mother or her family, apart from my notoriously bad memory!
I knew that they lived mostly in the Gateshead area of County Durham, but could find no BMD records of any Grists there, in the end I did find the marriage of Rosemary Grist to Raymond Wilson on the Durham County Archives site. The names and date matched with my memory so I ordered a copy, which only took 3 days to arrive in Germany. From the County records I also found a possible death for Raymond about 12 years later and the only possible child is listed as Melissa Anne Wilson, though I am uncertain if these 2 facts are the correct family.
From the marriage certificate I got Rosemarys fathers name Bertie Grist, similar to the Bertrum or Bertram I thought he was. I found him on the 1901 census for Gateshead age 2 years, which tied in with my memory of him retiring from work in the early 1960's.
I found from the census return his 2 brothers Thomas H. and John E. and his parents Tom Hewson Grist and Margaret. Tom Hewson Grist was born in Wigton, Cumbria and in the 1881 census the family is shown as living at 1 New Street Wigton, his parent are Thomas Grist from Bradford, Wiltshire and Jane from Wigton.
From one lucky find I jumped back3 generations and added 9 more people.
I knew that they lived mostly in the Gateshead area of County Durham, but could find no BMD records of any Grists there, in the end I did find the marriage of Rosemary Grist to Raymond Wilson on the Durham County Archives site. The names and date matched with my memory so I ordered a copy, which only took 3 days to arrive in Germany. From the County records I also found a possible death for Raymond about 12 years later and the only possible child is listed as Melissa Anne Wilson, though I am uncertain if these 2 facts are the correct family.
From the marriage certificate I got Rosemarys fathers name Bertie Grist, similar to the Bertrum or Bertram I thought he was. I found him on the 1901 census for Gateshead age 2 years, which tied in with my memory of him retiring from work in the early 1960's.
I found from the census return his 2 brothers Thomas H. and John E. and his parents Tom Hewson Grist and Margaret. Tom Hewson Grist was born in Wigton, Cumbria and in the 1881 census the family is shown as living at 1 New Street Wigton, his parent are Thomas Grist from Bradford, Wiltshire and Jane from Wigton.
From one lucky find I jumped back3 generations and added 9 more people.
Thursday, September 13, 2007
Reliable Data?
It is often thought that Official Documents are reliable, and maybe in many cases now that is true, but it was not always so.
Here is a copy of the marriage certificate of Arthur Victor Davies and Gertrude Florence Jones. One item of interest here is the father of Arthur Victor, he is listed as Richard William Davies (deceased), which gives some search possibilities for the previous generation.
As I said earlier the shortcut option I chose was census data, and the 1901 census shows Arthur Victor living at home with his mother but no father.
Well the marriage certificate said he was dead in 1909 so his not being alive in 1901 was possible as well. From the census data we can see Arthur and some of his siblings as well as Susan Davies, his mother. Susan is listed as widowed and age 53, there are 3 daughters at home Florence M., Beatrice H. and Susan S. then 3 sons Alfred E., Reginald P. and Arthur V. Also listed is a visitor and a married couple as borders. They lived then at 30 Rhos Ddu Road Wrexham, all the children were born in Wrexham and Susan was born in Bangor, Flintshire.
Going back 10 years to the 1991 census things were different.
For a start they lived at 39 Hope Street wrexham though there is still no mention of the father, Susan is listed as widow. We now see an older son living at home, William Davies age 18, born in Bangor and a hairdresser like his father. Then there are 5 daughters, Susan, Beatrice and Florence as in 1901 as you check their ages plus Mary and Jessie who possibly married or went into service before the 1901 census. From the sons Reginald P. is now named just as Percy and there is a 2 year old daughter Maud who possibly dies before 1901. It might be safe to assume that the father died less than 3 years before this census.
Going back 10 more years we see this for 39 Hope Street -
The father is listed, age 32 and a hairdresser and umbrella maker! born in Wrexham but with the name Robt W. assumed to be Robert William Davies. The son William is listed as Robert W. as well and there is another son John H.. The daughters are now listed as Florence A. (perhaps the later M. was a mistaken reading of the census sheet), Mary now gets a middle initial E. and Beatrice is named Henrietta B. (checked by her age) Jessie gets an initial V. and there is a new son Albert E. who seems to have died young. Also mentioned is Elizabeth Roberts a 12 year old general servant.
What can we deduce from this? Well not to much, despite all the name changing of the children it does seem certain this is the right family and most of the name changes are swapping around of first and second names and the ages all coincide with the 10 year census gaps, there were possibly several other children who were born and died between the census'. We can assume the family was moderately well off as they had a servant before the father died and afterwards life was more of a struggle for Susan, the move from Hope Street was perhaps to cheaper accommodation, the servant went and as children left home she took in borders to provide an income.
The big problem comes with Arthur Victors fathers name, is the marriage certificate correct or the 1881 census. Census data is notoriously inaccurate at times, but these sheets are at least readable and for the oldest son have the same name as his father is often true. Could it be that Arthur was not sure of his fathers name? The father died some 20 years before the marriage and it is possible that Susan had also died by 1909, so he could not ask her. All his siblings were older and possibly married or moved away and it could just be that the registrar relied on Arthur's word.
The next step is to find the exact date of birth for Arthur and if possible the date of his parents marriage these should confirm whether Richard William was Robert William or not as well as giving some more clues to the generation before and his mothers maiden name. He should also be listed on the census returns for 1871, 1861 and 1851 in Wrexham as he was born there. From the age of the eldest son, 8 in 1881, it is probable that they married just after the 1871 census but I could get lucky and find them just married in 1871.
Here is a copy of the marriage certificate of Arthur Victor Davies and Gertrude Florence Jones. One item of interest here is the father of Arthur Victor, he is listed as Richard William Davies (deceased), which gives some search possibilities for the previous generation.
As I said earlier the shortcut option I chose was census data, and the 1901 census shows Arthur Victor living at home with his mother but no father.
Well the marriage certificate said he was dead in 1909 so his not being alive in 1901 was possible as well. From the census data we can see Arthur and some of his siblings as well as Susan Davies, his mother. Susan is listed as widowed and age 53, there are 3 daughters at home Florence M., Beatrice H. and Susan S. then 3 sons Alfred E., Reginald P. and Arthur V. Also listed is a visitor and a married couple as borders. They lived then at 30 Rhos Ddu Road Wrexham, all the children were born in Wrexham and Susan was born in Bangor, Flintshire.
Going back 10 years to the 1991 census things were different.
For a start they lived at 39 Hope Street wrexham though there is still no mention of the father, Susan is listed as widow. We now see an older son living at home, William Davies age 18, born in Bangor and a hairdresser like his father. Then there are 5 daughters, Susan, Beatrice and Florence as in 1901 as you check their ages plus Mary and Jessie who possibly married or went into service before the 1901 census. From the sons Reginald P. is now named just as Percy and there is a 2 year old daughter Maud who possibly dies before 1901. It might be safe to assume that the father died less than 3 years before this census.
Going back 10 more years we see this for 39 Hope Street -
The father is listed, age 32 and a hairdresser and umbrella maker! born in Wrexham but with the name Robt W. assumed to be Robert William Davies. The son William is listed as Robert W. as well and there is another son John H.. The daughters are now listed as Florence A. (perhaps the later M. was a mistaken reading of the census sheet), Mary now gets a middle initial E. and Beatrice is named Henrietta B. (checked by her age) Jessie gets an initial V. and there is a new son Albert E. who seems to have died young. Also mentioned is Elizabeth Roberts a 12 year old general servant.
What can we deduce from this? Well not to much, despite all the name changing of the children it does seem certain this is the right family and most of the name changes are swapping around of first and second names and the ages all coincide with the 10 year census gaps, there were possibly several other children who were born and died between the census'. We can assume the family was moderately well off as they had a servant before the father died and afterwards life was more of a struggle for Susan, the move from Hope Street was perhaps to cheaper accommodation, the servant went and as children left home she took in borders to provide an income.
The big problem comes with Arthur Victors fathers name, is the marriage certificate correct or the 1881 census. Census data is notoriously inaccurate at times, but these sheets are at least readable and for the oldest son have the same name as his father is often true. Could it be that Arthur was not sure of his fathers name? The father died some 20 years before the marriage and it is possible that Susan had also died by 1909, so he could not ask her. All his siblings were older and possibly married or moved away and it could just be that the registrar relied on Arthur's word.
The next step is to find the exact date of birth for Arthur and if possible the date of his parents marriage these should confirm whether Richard William was Robert William or not as well as giving some more clues to the generation before and his mothers maiden name. He should also be listed on the census returns for 1871, 1861 and 1851 in Wrexham as he was born there. From the age of the eldest son, 8 in 1881, it is probable that they married just after the 1871 census but I could get lucky and find them just married in 1871.
Tuesday, September 11, 2007
The Davies People
Current list of born Davies people in the tree
Davies, Albert E 1880 - 1891
Davies, Alfred 1883 - 1901
Davies, Arthur Ellis 1921 - 2000
Davies, Arthur Victor 1885 - 1963
Davies, Diane Lesley living
Davies, Florence A 1875
Davies, Harold 1898 - 1965
Davies, Henrietta Beatrice 1878
Davies, Jesse V 1879
Davies, Joan Ellis 1925
Davies, John H 1874 - 1881
Davies, Mary E 1876
Davies, Maud 1889 - 1901
Davies, Neil Scott living
Davies, Reginald Percy 1884
Davies, Richard William 1866 - 1888
Davies, Robert Wiliam 1872
Davies, Ryan Lee living
Davies, Susan S 1882
Davies, Albert E 1880 - 1891
Davies, Alfred 1883 - 1901
Davies, Arthur Ellis 1921 - 2000
Davies, Arthur Victor 1885 - 1963
Davies, Diane Lesley living
Davies, Florence A 1875
Davies, Harold 1898 - 1965
Davies, Henrietta Beatrice 1878
Davies, Jesse V 1879
Davies, Joan Ellis 1925
Davies, John H 1874 - 1881
Davies, Mary E 1876
Davies, Maud 1889 - 1901
Davies, Neil Scott living
Davies, Reginald Percy 1884
Davies, Richard William 1866 - 1888
Davies, Robert Wiliam 1872
Davies, Ryan Lee living
Davies, Susan S 1882
The Genes pass on
Email today -
Hi,
I thought you would like to know that Connor William Battershill was born today at 12.45EST he weighed 7lbs 4oz and baby and Mommy are doing well. I've attached a couple of pics for you.
Ryan.
Another member of the clan.
And another proud father, brother and grandma
Hi,
I thought you would like to know that Connor William Battershill was born today at 12.45EST he weighed 7lbs 4oz and baby and Mommy are doing well. I've attached a couple of pics for you.
Ryan.
Another member of the clan.
And another proud father, brother and grandma
Friday, September 7, 2007
Getting Details
I despair of the UK system. From the marriage certificate of Artur Victor Davies and Gertrude Florence Jones I have narrowed their birthdays to about a 9 month period. The stupid UK system lists about 20 possible births for these 2 people, as I am not sure where they were born yet, if I assume Wrexham, where they married, then I still have 6 choices and that is only from searching the free indexes that may not be complete. I could fork out some money and pay to search the full indexes but I would still have no clear idea which person was the right one as the index only gives the name and place of birth in any 3 month period, I could easily spend over 100 uk pounds to get the right birth certificate and have a pile of others that are of no use to me.
In an effort to narrow the search I have decided to use some census data, but once again many companies expect you to pay to search with no idea if the data they supply is accurate, many companies have had the indexes transcribed by non English speakers and can contain errors.
As I was short of time this week I did a five minute Ebay search and found Trace your past. I asked for a 1901 census search for Arthur and Gertrude, within an hour I had a reply they were both listed in the 1901 and 1891 census returns, Gertrude was living with her family as her fathers name confirmed but Arthurs father was not listed Trace your past checked the 1881 census and found the father was listed with the rest of the family which confirmed the later census details. I ordered copies of all 5 census pages for less than a couple of beers and had them in my hands within a few hours. Trace your past offer a service that is both accurate and fast, I cannot praise the results enough.
I now know lots more Arthur's mother and 12 (at least) siblings, Gertrudes mother and her 7 siblings, with place of birth and approximate year of birth.
In an effort to narrow the search I have decided to use some census data, but once again many companies expect you to pay to search with no idea if the data they supply is accurate, many companies have had the indexes transcribed by non English speakers and can contain errors.
As I was short of time this week I did a five minute Ebay search and found Trace your past. I asked for a 1901 census search for Arthur and Gertrude, within an hour I had a reply they were both listed in the 1901 and 1891 census returns, Gertrude was living with her family as her fathers name confirmed but Arthurs father was not listed Trace your past checked the 1881 census and found the father was listed with the rest of the family which confirmed the later census details. I ordered copies of all 5 census pages for less than a couple of beers and had them in my hands within a few hours. Trace your past offer a service that is both accurate and fast, I cannot praise the results enough.
I now know lots more Arthur's mother and 12 (at least) siblings, Gertrudes mother and her 7 siblings, with place of birth and approximate year of birth.
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